insight

Strabo Geography Book V Chapter 2, 4:

And many have called also the tribes of Epirus "Pelasgian," because in their opinion the Pelasgi extended their rule even as far as that. And, further, because many of the heroes were called "Pelasgi" by name, the people of later times have, from those heroes, applied the name to many of the tribes; for example, they have called the island of Lesbos "Pelasgia," and Homer has called "Pelasgi" the people that were neighbours to those Cilicians who lived in the Troad... The following piece of Thucydides reflects the hostile skirmishes between Epirotes and the Greek world:

Thucydides, The Peloponnesian War 2.80.1:

The Hellenic troops with him consisted of the Ambraciots, Leucadians, and Anactorians, and the thousand Peloponnesians with whom he came; the barbarian of a thousand Chaonians, who, belonging to a nation that has no king, were led by Photius and Nicanor, the two members of the royal family to whom the chieftainship for that year had been confided. With the Chaonians came also some Thesprotians, like them without a king, [6] some Molossians and Atintanians led by Sabylinthus, the guardian of king Tharyps who was still a minor, and some Paravaeans, under their King Oroedus, accompanied by a thousand Orestians, subjects of King Antiochus and placed by him under the command of Oroedus. [7] There were also a thousand Macedonians sent by Perdiccas without the knowledge of the Athenians, but they arrived too late. Thus far, the Athenian historian distinguishes Epirotic tribes from Greeks, implying that Epirotes were non Greeks. The same author noticed that Epirotes received Greek from the nearby colony of Ambracia:

. Under the pressure of misfortune many generations afterwards, they called in the Ambraciots, their neighbours on the Amphilochian border, to join their colony; and it was by this union with the Ambraciots that they learnt their present Hellenic speech, the rest of the Amphilochians being barbarians.

Strabo the Geographer sees Gulf of Ambracia as the beginning of Greece, thus excluding all Epirus from Greece. His account relies on early observations made by sailors who traversed Adriatic and Ionian. Even the famous Ephorus is often cited by him. Then, beginning at the Ambracian Gulf, all the districts which, one after another, incline towards the east and stretch parallel to the Peloponnesus belong to Greece]... While ancient sailor left Epirus, he recognized immediately the Acarnanians Greeks: Next comes the mouth of the Ambracian Gulf. Although the mouth of this gulf is but slightly more than four stadia wide, the circumference is as much as three hundred stadia; and it has good harbours everywhere. That part of the country which is on the right as one sails in is inhabited by the Greek Acarnanians.

Absence of Mycenean culture in Epirus:

Something that must be seriously taken into consideration is the absence of Mycenean culture in Epirus. Even if the Myceneans were close to Proto-Greeks (though it's very suspicious), Epirus lie outside the sphere of such a culture.

K. A. Wardle, "Mycenaean Trade and Influence in Northern Greece," in C. Zerner, P. Zerner, and J. Winder (eds.), Wace and Blegen, Pottery as Evidence for Trade in the Aegean Bronze Age: 1939-1989 (Amsterdam 1993), p. 117: "Neither Macedonia nor Epirus to the west were ever part of Mycenaean Greece". Even the account (which has been attributed to Ps-Scylax) clearly separate Epirus from Greece:

DIFFERENTISATING GREEK CENTER FROM EPIRUS:

33. AMBRAKIA. And after Molottia, Ambrakia, a Hellenic city: and this is distant from sea 80 stades. And there is also upon the sea a fort and an enclosed harbor. From here Hellas begins to be continuous as far as Peneios river and Homolion, a city of Magnesian territory, which is beside the river. And the coastal voyage of Ambrakia is of 120 stades.

Plutarch made no mention of the language spoken by the Epirotes, but according to him it was not Greek:

Of the Thesprotians and Molossians after the great flood, the first king, according to some historians, was Phaethon, one of those who came into Epirus with Pelasgus. Others tell us that Deucalion and Pyrrha, having set up the worship of Jupiter at Dodona, settled there among the Molossians. In after time, Neoptolemus, Achilles's son, planting a colony, possessed these parts himself, and left a succession of kings, who, after him, was named Pyrrhidae, as he in his youth was called Pyrrhus, and of his legitimate children, one was born of Lanassa, daughter of Cleodaeus, Hyllus's son, had also that name. From him Achilles came to have divine honours in Epirus, under the name of Aspetus, in the language of the country.

It doesn't make any sense that Plutarch was invoking a Greek language in Epirus. He is surely referring to a language, completely unintelligible to the Greeks of his time. Of great importance is the mention of Pelasgians, who have been the very ancient people of that country. Therefore, Epirotes might be considered as Pelasgian's seeds.

Strabo 11.14.12.

Most northerly Greeks:

ἔδει μὲν γὰρ αὐτοῖς ἐπιθέτου κόσμου τοιούτου τινός, οἱ δὲ Θετταλοὶ μάλιστα βαθυστολοῦντες, ὡς εἰκός, διὰ τὸ πάντων εἶναι Ἑλλήνων βορειοτάτους καὶ ψυχροτάτους νέμεσθαι τόπους ἐπιτηδειοτάτην παρέσχοντο μίμησιν τῇ τῶν ὑποκριτῶν διασκευῇ ἐν τοῖς ἀναπλάσμασιν·

“The Thessalians in particular wore long robes, probably because they of all the Greeks lived in the most northerly and coldest region".

Beginning of Greece: Ἔφορος μὲν οὖν ἀρχὴν εἶναι τῆς Ἑλλάδος τὴν Ἀκαρνανίαν φησὶν ἀπὸ τῶν ἑσπερίων μερῶν· ταύτην γὰρ συνάπτειν πρώτην τοῖς Ἠπειρωτικοῖς ἔθνεσιν.

Ephorus says that, if one begins with the western parts, Acarnania is the beginning of Greece; for, he adds, Acarnania is the first to border on the tribes of the Epeirotes

No difference between Epiriots and Illyrians:

μετὰ μὲν οὖν τοὺς Ἠπειρώτας καὶ τοὺς Ἰλλυριοὺς τῶν Ἑλλήνων Ἀκαρνᾶνές εἰσι καὶ Αἰτωλοὶ καὶ Λοκροὶ οἱ Ὀζόλαι·

After the Epeirotes and the Illyrians, then, come the following peoples of the Greeks: the Acarnanians, the Aetolians, and the Ozolian Locrians…

Greek elements were imported as a result of the ruling elite: Tharrhypas is said to have been the first, who by introducing Greek manners and learning, and humane laws into his cities, left any fame of himself.

[Strabon Geografia , 008.001.001] μετὰ μὲν οὖν τοὺς Ἠπειρώτας καὶ τοὺς Ἰλλυριοὺς τῶν Ἑλλήνων Ἀκαρνᾶνές εἰσι καὶ Αἰτωλοὶ καὶ Λοκροὶ οἱ Ὀζόλαι·

After the Epeirotes and the Illyrians, then, come the following peoples of the Greeks: the Acarnanians, the Aetolians, and the Ozolian Locrians; and, next, the Phocians and Boeotians.

Important differentiation:

131. He then was staying in the region of Pieriamany days, for the road over the mountains of Macedonia was being cut meanwhile by a third part of his army, that all the host might pass over by this way into the land of the Perraibians: and now the heralds returned who had been sent to Hellas to demand the gift of earth, some empty-handed and others bearing earth and water. ὁ μὲν δὴ περὶ Πιερίην διέτριβε ἡμέρας συχνάς· τὸ γὰρ δὴ ὄρος τὸ Μακεδονικὸν ἔκειρε τῆς στρατιῆς τριτημορίς, ἵνα ταύτῃ διεξίῃ ἅπασα ἡ στρατιὴ ἐς Περραιβούς. οἱ δὲ δὴ κήρυκες οἱ ἀποπεμφθέντες ἐς τὴν Ἑλλάδα ἐπὶ γῆς αἴτησιν ἀπίκατο οἳ μὲν κεινοί, οἳ δὲ φέροντες γῆν τε καὶ ὕδωρ.

Pausanias: [1.11.6] The first Greeks that Pyrrhus attacked on becoming king were the Corcyraeans.

Ephorus says that, if one begins with the western parts, Acarnania is the beginning of Greece; for, he adds, Acarnania is the first to border on the tribes of the Epeirotes. But just as Ephorus, using the sea-coast as his measuring-line, begins with Acarnania (for he decides in favour of the sea as a kind of guide in his description of places...so it is proper that I too, following the natural character of the regions, should make the sea my counsellor.

Ps-Scylax: ILLYRIOI. And after Libyrnians are the Illyrian nation, and the Illyrians live along beside the sea as far as Chaonia by Kerkyra, the island of Alkinoös. And there is a Hellenic city here, which has the name Herakleia, with a harbour. The barbarians called Lotus-eaters are the following: Hierastamnai, Boulinoi (Hyllinoi), coterminous with Boulinoi the Hylloi. And these say Hyllos son of Herakles settled them: and they are barbarians. And they occupy a peninsula a little lesser than the Peloponnese. And from peninsula parastonion* is upright: Boulinoi live beside this. And Boulinoi are an Illyric nation. And the coastal voyage is of the territory of Boulinoi of a long day up to Nestos river

KORKYRA. And by Chaonia is an island, Korkyra, and a Hellenic city in it, having three harbours by the city: of these the one is enclosed. And Korkyra belongs also to Thesprotia more than Chaonia. And I return again onto the mainland, whence I turned aside.

AMBRAKIA. And after Molottia, Ambrakia, a Hellenic city: and this is distant from sea 80 stades. And there is also upon the sea a fort and an enclosed harbour. From here Hellas begins to be continuous as far as Peneios river and Homolion, a city of Magnesian territory, which is beside the river. And the coastal voyage of Ambrakia is of 120 stades.

During his investigations, Ps-Scylax noticed that Hellas begins to be continuos from Ambrakia 'a Hellenic city', which sharply contrasted from the Molottia. More specifically, he saw as different Chaonia from Corcyra, the latter deemed as Hellenic city. Such explicit hints hardly infer any Greek identity to the Epirots.

The penetration of the Illyrians into northern Greece in the twelfth century BC led to the decay of the flourishing Mycenaean culture and to a complete upheaval in Greek political history. First, Epirus and Aetolia were engulfed by the wave of the Illyrian invasion. Epirus which had been in greater part Hellenized and whose religious center was the sanctuary of Zeus in Dodona, became once more Illyrian. Aetolia, a flourishing land in Homeric times, lapsed into almost complete barbarism. A great many of the Aetolians crossed the Corinthian Gulf, subjected the native Greek population, and settled in the land which became known as Elis.

Early Christian and Byzantine political philosophy, Francis Dvorník

The Illyrians and Thracians proper all tattooed, as did the ancient Mycenians; there is evidence to show that there was a large Illyrian element in Epirus, where, as we saw above (p.94), there were many tribes which called themselves Pelasgian…We have seen that there was no sharp line between the speech of Illyrians and Thesprotians or Thessalians|

The process of Hellenization reached its nadir at the Hellenistic period:

Except in Egypt, Hellenic influence was nowhere stronger than on the eastern shore of the Mediterranean. Greek cities arose there in continuation, or in place, of the older Semitic foundations, and gradually changed the aspect of the country. Such cities were Raphia, Gaza, Ascalon, Azotus, Jabneh, Jaffa, Cæsarea, Dor, and Ptolemais. It was especially in eastern Palestine that Hellenism took a firm hold, and the cities of the Decapolis (which seems also to have included Damascus) were the centers of Greek influence.This influence extended in later times over the whole of the district east of the Jordan and of the Sea of Gennesaret, especially inTrachonitis, Batanæa, and Auranitis. The cities in western Palestine were not excepted. Samaria and Panias were at an early time settled by Macedonian colonists. The names of places were Hellenized: "Rabbath-Ammon" to "Philadelphia"; "Armoab" to "Ariopolis"; "Akko" to "Ptolemais." The same occurred with personal names: "Ḥoni" became "Menelaus"; "Joshua" became "Jason" or "Jesus." The Hellenic influence pervaded everything, and even in the very strongholds of Judaism it modified the organization of the state, the laws, and public affairs, art, science, and industry, affecting even the ordinary things of life and the common associations of the people.

A glance at the classes of Greek words which found their way into the Hebrew and the Jewish-Aramaic of the period, as compiled by I. Löw (in S. Krauss, "Lehnwörter," pp. 623 et seq.), shows this with great clearness. The Hellenists were not confined to the aristocratic class, but were found in all strata of Jewish society (Wellhausen, "I. J. G." p. 194), though the aristocrats naturally profited more from the good-will of Hellenistic rulers than did other classes.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...#ixzz1WF2EhPF6

The term barbarian was merely employed to denote the non-Greek being of a certain ethnos. I don't even preclude that such a term was used sometimes even for Greek communities, who were alienated in a certain scale. Considering its usage in respect to Epirotes, it seem likely that 'barbarian' inferred their non-Greek being. Such a term was used indiscriminately for Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians and so on. Your interpretation of Plutarch's quote leaves much to be desired. He merely relates the historical tradition who attributed to Tharypas the responsibility for introducing Greek language, manners and tradition in the cities of Molossia. Without ascending of Tharypas to throne, Hellenism would never made progress in the cities of his homeland, which were not yet tainted by Hellenism.

Hammond's thesis relies on assumptions because Theopompus did not classify Epirotic tribes as Hellenes. He was quite familiar with the situation on Epirus, but he did not ranked Epirotes among Greek peoples.

Herodotus' statement about Dodoneans as being the first Hellenes is doubtful since his account reeks of contradictions. It worth of noting the very fact that Herodotus viewed Thessalians as being the first Hellenic people who became vassals of the Great King (i.e Persian king). Such a fact should not be passed unnoticed. Aristotle's quote does not reconcile at all with ancient sources. Some trustworthy sources do mention Pelasgians as dwellers around Dodona. Its sanctuary was built by the Pelasgians. This is best exemplified by Achilles who prayed: "High Zeus, Lord of Dodona, Pelasgian, living afar off, brooding over wintry Dodona".

The topography of Epirotic tribes cannot be pinpointed since most of the tribes were keen to change periodically their territory, which is why some of them were semi-nomadic. The territory of Atintanes varies according to the sources. Ps-Scylax saw their seats near Dodona: "Sharing a border with all these in the interior are Atintanes above Orikia and Karia as far as Dodonia".

There is no compelling evidence for assuming that there were two distinct tribes bearing the name of Atintanes, which is why Hammond's assumption doesn't hold any water. Geographically speaking, Epirus was not considered as part of Greece. If Herodotus description is to be maintained, then Greece's boundary never went beyond Ambracia Gulf: 8.47: Ἀμπρακιώτῃσι καὶ Λευκαδίοισι, οἳ ἐξ ἐσχατέων χωρέων ἐστρατεύοντο. This statement is further strengthened by the testimonies of Strabo:

Dorians were gradually alienated as they were no longer part of their primordial stock. There are some evidences which infers how their Hellenization took place:

[1] ταῦτα μὲν ἐς Ἄδρηστόν οἱ ἐπεποίητο, φυλὰς δὲ τὰς Δωριέων, ἵνα δὴ μὴ αἱ αὐταὶ ἔωσι τοῖσι Σικυωνίοισι καὶ τοῖσι Ἀργείοισι, μετέβαλε ἐς ἄλλα οὐνόματα. ἔνθα καὶ πλεῖστον κατεγέλασε τῶν Σικυωνίων· ἐπὶ γὰρ ὑός τε καὶ ὄνου τὰς ἐπωνυμίας μετατιθεὶς αὐτὰ τὰ τελευταῖα ἐπέθηκε, πλὴν τῆς ἑωυτοῦ φυλῆς· ταύτῃ δὲ τὸ οὔνομα ἀπὸ τῆς ἑωυτοῦ ἀρχῆς ἔθετο

Thus he had done to Adrastos; and he also changed the names of the Dorian tribes, in order that the Sikyonians might not have the same tribes as the Argives; in which matter he showed great contempt of the Sikyonians, for the names he gave were taken from the names of a pig and an ass by changing only the endings.

Archaeological excavations have yielded a culture in whole Epirus which is quite similar to that of Illyrians. What matters the most is that ancients were not sure as to which tribe was Illyrian and which one was Epirotic. Being so, we may surmise that the differences between Illyrians and Epirots were very thin. The Autariates are a case in point. While according to Appianus they were Illyrian, some sources mention them as Epirots. The same goes also for Amantes, Perrhabeians, Dassaretes, Chaones, etc. Most of scholars believe that Illyrian penetrated as far as Aetolia, as it is evinced by linguistic vestiges. Illyrians engulfed most of Epirus, Aetolia, Acarnania and a certain part of Thessaly. This is further enforced by the fact that ancients stressed out the lacking of Hellenism of the above-mentioned regions. The fanatical outrage of most Greeks to not accept Epirots as genuinely Greek comes from their experience.

Describing the campaign of Xerxes, Herodotus asserts:

131. He then was staying in the region of Pieriamany days, for the road over the mountains of Macedonia was being cut meanwhile by a third part of his army, that all the host might pass over by this way into the land of the Perraibians: and now the heralds returned who had been sent to Hellas to demand the gift of earth, some empty-handed and others bearing earth and water.

ὁ μὲν δὴ περὶ Πιερίην διέτριβε ἡμέρας συχνάς· τὸ γὰρ δὴ ὄρος τὸ Μακεδονικὸν ἔκειρε τῆς στρατιῆς τριτημορίς, ἵνα ταύτῃ διεξίῃ ἅπασα ἡ στρατιὴ ἐς Περραιβούς. οἱ δὲ δὴ κήρυκες οἱ ἀποπεμφθέντες ἐς τὴν Ἑλλάδα ἐπὶ γῆς αἴτησιν ἀπίκατο οἳ μὲν κεινοί, οἳ δὲ φέροντες γῆν τε καὶ ὕδωρ.

Had it been Macedonia, Pieria and Perrhabia part of Hellas, Herodotus would not distinguish them. The most satisfactorily explanation might be traced to the fact that Greeks were barely to be found there. Peneus river marked the boundary between Hellenes and non-Hellenes.

Acheans (older inhabitants) and the Dorians, which were perceived as foreigners:

Herodotus Book 1: Clio [56]

«ὦ ξεῖνε Λακεδαιμόνιε, πάλιν χώρεε μηδὲ ἔσιθι ἐς τὸ ἱρόν· οὐ γὰρ θεμιτὸν Δωριεῦσι παριέναι ἐνθαῦτα.» ὁ δὲ εἶπε «ὦ γύναι, ἀλλ᾽ οὐ Δωριεύς εἰμι ἀλλ᾽ Ἀχαιός.» [4] ὃ μὲν δὴ τῇ κλεηδόνι οὐδὲν χρεώμενος ἐπεχείρησέ τε καὶ τότε πάλιν ἐξέπιπτε μετὰ τῶν Λακεδαιμονίων· τοὺς δὲ ἄλλους Ἀθηναῖοι κατέδησαν τὴν ἐπὶ θανάτῳ, ἐν δὲ αὐτοῖσι καὶ Τιμησίθεον τὸν Δελφόν, τοῦ ἔργα χειρῶν τε καὶ λήματος ἔχοιμ᾽ ἂν μέγιστα καταλέξαι

”Lacedemonian stranger, go back and enter not into the temple, for it is not lawful for Dorians to pass in hither." He said: "Woman, I am not a Dorian, but an Achaian." So then, paying no attention to the ominous speech, he made his attempt and then was expelled again with the Lacedemonians; but the rest of the men the Athenians laid in bonds to be put to death, and among them Timesitheos the Delphian, with regard to whom I might mention very great deeds of strength and courage which he performed.

Plutarch merely mentioned the ruling class of Molossians, who hark back their origin to Achilles. He further asserts that Nepotolemus left for his descendants certain possessions over Epirus. Again not much can be inferred for the rest of Epirus. The population was profoundly Pelasgian which was later overlaid by the Illyrians. The following fragment is worthy of further analyzing:

Of the Thesprotians and Molossians after the great inundation, the first king, according to some historians, was Phaethon, one of those who came into Epirus with Pelasgus. Others tell us that Deucalion and Pyrrha, having set up the worship of Jupiter at Dodona, settled there among the Molossians. In after time, Neoptolemus, Achilles's son, planting a colony, possessed these parts himself, and left a succession of kings, who, after him, was named Pyrrhidae, as he in his youth was called Pyrrhus, and of his legitimate children, one was born of Lanassa, daughter of Cleodaeus, Hyllus's son, had also that name. From him Achilles came to have divine honours in Epirus, under the name of Aspetus, in the language of the country. After these first kings, those of the following intervening times becoming barbarous, and insignificant both in their power and their lives, Tharrhypas is said to have been the first who, by introducing Greek manners and learning, and humane laws into his cities, left any fame of himself. Alcetas was the son of Tharrhypas, Arybas of Alcetas, and of Arybas and Troas his queen, Aeacides; he married Phthia, the daughter of Menon, the Thessalian, a man of note at the time of the Lamiac war, and of highest command in the confederate army next to Leosthenes. To Aeacides were born of Phthia, Deidamia and Troas, daughters, and Pyrrhus, a son.

1. There is no archeological proof indicating any great inundation in Epirus, as Plutarch believes. In all probability, such a myth was loaned from East (probably Hettite). Some scholars used it symbolically with the purpose to erase the traces of previous inhabitants.

2. If Pelasgus signifies the presence of Pelasgians, then it seem not unlikely that Epirus was firstly occupied by them. Ancient sources make it plain that Pelasgians were not Greeks. As modern studies goes on, Pelasgians were indigenous there who used to live much earlier than Greeks. Herotodus pointed out that some Pelasgians passed as Hellenes, which is a certain sign of the assimilation.

3. Plutarch's line about later kings becoming barbarous is quite interesting. Probably the line of Aecides was interrupted for some time or even some kings were not in throne. We should not ignore the very fact that Hellenism was always confined within the court of Aecides. So far no source suggest that Epirots were of the same stock as Aecides.

"Hellenes and barbarians". Thucydides employed such a term even for the Illyrians and Lyncestians. Surely he had not in mind Greek-speakings who did not share the splendid culture of Athens. It's precisely Thucydides who noticed the progressing of Hellenism in Epirus as a result of the colonies, mainly of Ambracia. Commenting that situation, McInerney holds that: “The episode is structured around to sets of overlapping oppositions: Greek versus barbarian, and polis versus etnos”.

Epirotes called Achilles "ASPETUS" in their "native language". An 100% Greek word of Dorian origin. His etymology is not yet settled down. Indeed some linguists tried to match it with a similar word found on Homeric verses, but it gives no satisfactory explanation. A more plausible etymology might be well traced to the Albanian word 'shpetë' (quick), which make some senses on the ground that Achilles was often nicknamed 'fleet-footed'. Dorian dialect of Epirus is not Greek at all. Yet still, Dorians were of the same stock as Illyrians, as some traditions ascertain. Their primordial seat was located somewhere in Dalmatia. What put in motion them is still unknown but it seem very likely that Illyrians had their share on their invasion. Milojcic regards the Early Illyrians, the Dorians (with Epirus as their point of departure), and once more the Illyrians as constituting these movements. Be that as it may, ancient Greeks possessed an Illyrian ingredient which is why there are a cluster of common words. Some maintain that even modern Albanian (descendant of the Illyrian) is able to explain some archaic Greek words.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/.../Illyria*.html

Firstly the Great King never conquered Epirus. Furthermore Epirotes were west of Thessalians, so Persian army (which came from the east) passed first from Thessalians.So no contradictions at it.

He did not call Macedonians as the first Greeks who got subjugated to the Great King. History relates that Macedonians were one of the first peoples who became vassals of Persians.

Also he never wrote that Dodona built by Selli and Graeci. Where do u read this, at Aristotle text? I was not talking about Selloi nor Graeci. I just stated that Pelasgians were known as the builders of that sanctuary because even the literary tradition mention them.

Hammondis an expert on the issue of Epirus, because of his excavations and research on ancient textes. I'm not trying to belittle his importance on the studies relating Epirus. He did tremendous studies on the topography of Epirotic tribes by twining historical sources with his own experience for he visited almost every corner of mountainous Epirus. But his general outlook isn't correct at all. He is too rigid to change his positions even if new informations how come in light. Hammond refrain from calling Illyrians the tribes of Epirus, albeit he admit the similarities between the culture of Epirus and that of Illyria. His claim that Epirotes have spoken Greek from inception is of no account. There is no evidence to suggest that Molossians & the rest spoke Greek from the beginning. Archeological excavations have yielded numerous inscriptions which were written in Greek. But there is a serious fact which further complicates things. Let presuppose that Epirotes have been Greek from times immemorial. Linguists have long noted the presence of various Greek dialects in a relatively small region like Epirus. Some inscriptions were in Doric, Aeolian and some others in what linguists call as Western Greek dialect. If Epirus had it been Greek, then it would not have a multiple of various dialects of Greek. Last but not least, I'd like to point the existence of certain names revealed in Epirus which clearly pertain to the Illyrian onomasticon!

Illyrian presence in Aetolia:

Some scholars have pointed to Illyrian presence in Aetolia and Acarnania. They based their opinion on thorough analysis of Thucydides's paragraph which recognizes a large non-Greek element among Aetolians:

III,94: The Aetolian nation, although numerous and warlike, yet dwelt in un-walled villages scattered far apart, and had nothing but light armor, and might, according to the Messenians, be subdued without much difficulty before succors could arrive. The plan which they recommended was to attack first the Apodotians, next the Ophionians, and after these the Eurytanians, who are the largest tribe in Aetolia, and speak, as is said, a language exceedingly difficult to understand, and eat their flesh raw.

1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curetes_(tribe)

According to Strabo the Curetes were assigned multiple identities and places of origin (i.e. either Acarnanians, Aetolians, from Crete, or from Euboea). He clarified the identity of the Curetes and regarded them solely as Aetolians. Dionysius of Halicarnassus mentioned the Curetes as the old name of the Aetolians. It seems evident that Strabo clearly groups and classifies Curetes as one of the 'barbarian' tribes of Aetolia.

2) Book X, Chapter 2: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...rabo/10B*.html

”The Evenus River begins in the territory of those Bomians who live in the country of the Ophians, the Ophians being an Aetolian tribe (like the Eurytanians and Agraeans and Curetes and others), and flows at first, not through the Curetan country, which is the same as the Pleuronian, but through the more easterly country, past Chalcis and Calydon; and then, bending back towards the plains of Old Pleuron and changing its course to the west, it turns towards its outlets and the south. In earlier times it was called Lycornas."

3) Furthermore, in book X, Chapter 3, Strabo seems to draw a parallel between the Curetes and Abantes.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...rabo/10C*.html

”… the Curetes settled at Chalcis, but since they were continually at war for the Lelantine Plain and the enemy would catch them by the front hair and drag them down, he says, they let their hair grow long behind but cut short the part in front, and because of this they were called "Curetes," from the cut of their hair*, and they then migrated to Aetolia, and, after taking possession of the region round Pleuron, called the people who lived on the far side of the Acheloüs "Acarnanians," because they kept their heads unshorn."

* - "Cura." From this passage one might identify the "Curetes" with the "Abantes" (see 10.1.3), whom Homer speaks of as "letting their hair grow long behind" (Iliad 2.542). According to a scholium (on Iliad l.c.), the Euboeans wore the hair long behind "for the sake of manly strength."

4) Who were the Abantes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abantes

Aristotle states that the Abantes were Thracians from Abae in Phokis (Phocis). The Abantes were definitely not Ionians themselves, but many ended up assimilated into the Ionian population.

Brief conclusion:

From the above quotes it looks like the term "Curetes" was a legendary (ancient) name of the Aetolians as a whole. According to Strabo, the Curetes were one of many tribes of the Aetolian nation - these tribes were regarded as non-Greek by several ancient authors (Agraeans, Eurytanians, etc.). In addition to this, there was some sort of connection between the Curetes and Abantes; and Abantes were of Thracian stock. It would appear then that a large part of Aetolians were of non-Greek stock.

POLYBIUS - 'THE RISE OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE', HISTORIES Book XVIII.5

Αἰτωλῶν δ' οὐκ ἀνεκτόν: ποίας δὲ κελεύετέ με" φησὶν " ἐκχωρεῖν Ἑλλάδος καὶ πῶς ἀφορίζετε ταύτην; αὐτῶν γὰρ Αἰτωλῶν οὐκ εἰσὶν Ἕλληνες οἱ πλείους: τὸ γὰρ τῶν Ἀγραῶν ἔθνος καὶ τὸ τῶν Ἀποδωτῶν, ἔτι δὲ τῶν Ἀμφιλόχων, οὐκ ἔστιν Ἑλλάς. ἢ τούτων μὲν παραχωρεῖτέ μοι;"

’What is this Greece which you demand that I should evacuate, and what how do you define Greece?. Certainly most of the Aetolians themselves are not Greeks! The countries of the Agraae, the Apodotea, and the Amphilochians cannot be regarded as Greeks. So do you allow to me to remain in those territories' While this statement has been made by Philip V during his grievances to the Roman delegates, it's worth of noting that Epirots and certain section of the Aetolians were still perceived as non-Greeks.

The Peloponnesian War”, Penguin Classics, 1954, Book Two, chapter 7, page 137):

About the same time towards the close of the summer, the Ambraciot forces, with a number of barbarians that they had raised, marched against the Amphilochian Argos and the rest of that country. The origin of their enmity against the Argives was this. This Argos and the rest of Amphilochia were colonized by Amphilochus, son of Amphiaraus. Dissatisfied with the state of affairs at home on his return thither after the Trojan War, he built this city in the Ambracian Gulf, and named it Argos after his own country. This was the largest town in Amphilochia, and its inhabitants the most powerful. Under the pressure of misfortune many generations afterwards, they called in the Ambraciots, their neighbours on the Amphilochian border, to join their colony; and it was by this union with the Ambraciots that they learnt their present Hellenic speech, the rest of the Amphilochians being barbarians. After a time the Ambraciots expelled the Argives and held the city themselves. Upon this the Amphilochians gave themselves over to the Acarnanians; and the two together called the Athenians, who sent them Phormio as general and thirty ships; upon whose arrival they took Argos by storm, and made slaves of the Ambraciots; and the Amphilochians and Acarnanians inhabited the town in common. After this began the alliance between the Athenians and Acarnanians. The enmity of the Ambraciots against the Argives thus commenced with the enslavement of their citizens; and afterwards during the war they collected this armament among themselves and the Chaonians, and other of the neighbouring barbarians. Arrived before Argos, they became masters of the country; but not being successful in their attacks upon the town, returned home and dispersed among their different people.

Herodotus Book 1: Clio [56]

«ὦ ξεῖνε Λακεδαιμόνιε, πάλιν χώρεε μηδὲ ἔσιθι ἐς τὸ ἱρόν· οὐ γὰρ θεμιτὸν Δωριεῦσι παριέναι ἐνθαῦτα.» ὁ δὲ εἶπε «ὦ γύναι, ἀλλ᾽ οὐ Δωριεύς εἰμι ἀλλ᾽ Ἀχαιός.» [4] ὃ μὲν δὴ τῇ κλεηδόνι οὐδὲν χρεώμενος ἐπεχείρησέ τε καὶ τότε πάλιν ἐξέπιπτε μετὰ τῶν Λακεδαιμονίων· τοὺς δὲ ἄλλους Ἀθηναῖοι κατέδησαν τὴν ἐπὶ θανάτῳ, ἐν δὲ αὐτοῖσι καὶ Τιμησίθεον τὸν Δελφόν, τοῦ ἔργα χειρῶν τε καὶ λήματος ἔχοιμ᾽ ἂν μέγιστα καταλέξαι

”Lacedemonian stranger, go back and enter not into the temple, for it is not lawful for Dorians to pass in hither." He said: "Woman, I am not a Dorian, but an Achaian." So then, paying no attention to the ominous speech, he made his attempt and then was expelled again with the Lacedemonians; but the rest of the men the Athenians laid in bonds to be put to death, and among them Timesitheos the Delphian, with regard to whom I might mention very great deeds of strength and courage which he performed. The previous inhabitants of Aetolia were gradually overlaid by the new element which was recognizably Illyrian. This is whhy Hellenism made little progress at the northern fringes of Aetolia. Here is the testimony of Thucydides:

«τὸ γὰρ ἔθνος μέγα μὲν εἶναι τὸ τῶν Αἰτωλῶν καὶ μάχιμον, οἰκοῦν δὲ κατὰ κώμας ἀτειχίστους, καὶ ταύτας διὰ πολλοῦ, καὶ σκευῇ ψιλῇ χρώμενον οὐ χαλεπὸν ἀπέφαινον, πρὶν ξυμβοηθῆσαι, καταστραφῆναι. ἐπιχειρεῖν δ᾿ ἐκέλευον πρῶτον μὲν Ἀποδωτοῖς, ἔπειτα δὲ Ὀφιονεῦσι καὶ μετὰ τούτους Εὐρυτᾶσιν, ὅπερ μέγιστον μέρος ἐστὶ τῶν Αἰτωλῶν, ἀγνωστότατοι δὲ γλῶσσαν καὶ ὠμοφάγοι εἰσίν, ὡς λέγονται» (ΘΟΥΚΥΔΙΔΗΣ III.94)

III,94: The Aetolian nation, although numerous and warlike, yet dwelt in un-walled villages scattered far apart, and had nothing but light armor, and might, according to the Messenians, be subdued without much difficulty before succors could arrive. The plan which they recommended was to attack first the Apodotians, next the Ophionians, and after these the Eurytanians, who are the largest tribe in Aetolia, and speak, as is said, a language exceedingly difficult to understand, and eat their flesh raw.

It has been proved beyond any doubt the presence of a large Illyrian element within Epirus. Their presence is best examplified by the archeological excavations as well as by linguistcs. Their appearance on Epirus rests on the great turmoils which followed the decay of Mycenean civilization. At that period, Illyrians poured down in Epirus, Aetolia, Acarnania all the way to Pelepopnesse.

At Dodona and at Vaxia southeast of Dodona Illyrian object's of the eighth and seventh centuries have been found, and they are indicative of peaceful and perhaps sometimes warring penetration by Illyrians.

By carefully sifting the archeological evidences, Hammond assumes that Illyrians peacfully penetrated in midst of Epirus, as it is clearly demonstrated by the presence of certain objects which are addmitedely Illyrian.

The Illyrians and Thracians proper all tattooed, as did the ancient Mycenians; there is evidence to show that there was a large Illyrian element in Epirus, where, as we saw above (p.94), there were many tribes which called themselves Pelasgian…We have seen that there was no sharp line between the speech of Illyrians and Thesprotians or Thessalians|

The text of Plutarch that u brought here has many mistakes. For example it says that a colony planted at Epirus. Well there is nowhere in the text of Plutarch the word colony (αποικία). Another one sever mistake is that Tharypas brought the Greek learnign at Epirus. Whether Plutarch mentioned explicitly or not the founding of colonies carries no weight at all. It's abduantely clear that he point to the Hellenization of Epirus, which was initiated by its kings, who were willing to adopt Greek manners. The fact that Greek is to be found in the inscriptions doesn't mean that Epirots used to speak Greek too. There are some compelling reasons to believe that Epirots spoke an Illyrian patois, with recognizable Doric elements.

Some Illyrian tribes seem to have been pressing southwards into Epirus in the first half of the first millennium B.C., to judge by the distribution of some types of tribal names, but Greek seems to have been well-established throughout most of that region at least as the language used by the leading families early in the fourth century. However, even the fact that inscriptions of a koinon of Molossian tribes,for example, were written in Greek c. 370 B.C. does not prove that Greeks their original native language. Political arrangements would still have been made by the dominant minorities. One may note the periodof bilingualism in the hellenization of central Sicily.

The Cambridge ancient history - Volume 3, Part 1 Obviously we dont know what was happening before this era, but at least we are sure that Epirus was Greek since the Mycenaean era I am left far from being persuaded as long as you do not accompany your statements with relevant quotes. The relation of Greeks with Myceneans is largely conjectural. Even if we take for granted the Greek identity of Myceneans, their presence in Epirus was extremely scarce as was the case with Illyria, Thracia, etc. Being so, the slender Mycenean artefacts might well be classified as being imported. Thucydides holds that Greece did not even exist as a name before the Trojan war. What matters the most is that Greeks did not cease from calling Epirots as non-Greeks, even though they underwent a conspicious process of Hellenization. At his time, Thucydides saw Epirots from Greeks as markedly different. Here is what the great Athenian strategist on his “Peloponnesian War” had to say on this issue (The Peloponnesian War”, Penguin Classics, 1954, Book Two, chapter 7, page 137):

Little can be learned from written sources of the origin and character of the Illyrians. The Greek legend that Cadmus and Harmonia settled in Illyria and became the parents of Illyrius, the eponymous ancestor of the whole Illyrian people, has been interpreted as an indication that the Greeks recognized some affinity between themselves and the Illyrians; but this inference is based on insufficient data.

Illyrians were from the same stock of Gauls and Celts which means Hallstatt culture (and this is and 100% fact) and Dorians were one of the 4 Greek races. All the historians, all the linguists, all the archaeological findins all the ancient testimonies and myths but most importand Dorians themselves confirm that Dorians were Greeks! With your unique declaration we have the conclusion that Spartians were not Greeks! hahahaha. Can u imagine something like this? I guess you did not graps what I was trying to point out. Of course Dorians were linguistically Greek, being one of the main branches of the Greek language. Even though their early history is shrouded in mystery, they were not Greek from the very inception. Proto-Dorians were of the same stock as the Illyrians. It's should be noted that Dorians cohabited for centuries in Illyria, which make it quite plausible that they were at least partially Illyrian. Modern scholars are inclined to adhere the view according to which an Illyrian ingridient is quite feasible.

Ps-Scylax hammered home:

22. ILLYRIOI. And after Libyrnians are the Illyrian nation, and the Illyrians live along beside the sea as far as Chaonia by Kerkyra, the island of Alkinoös. And there is a Hellenic city here, which has the name Herakleia, with a harbour. The barbarians called Lotus-eaters are the following: Hierastamnai, Boulinoi (Hyllinoi), coterminous with Boulinoi the Hylloi. And these say Hyllos son of Herakles settled them: and they are barbarians. And they occupy a peninsula a little lesser than the Peloponnese. And from peninsula parastonion* is upright: Boulinoi live beside this. And Boulinoi are an Illyric nation. And the coastal voyage is of the territory of Boulinoi of a long day up to Nestos river

The whole thing is not coincidence at all. Its not unilikely that Dorians were intimately accompanied by their Illyrian brethern during their supposed migration which gradually swamped most of Greece:

The penetration of the Illyrians into northern Greece in the twelfth century BC led to the decay of the flourishing Mycenaean culture and to a complete upheaval in Greek political history. First, Epirus and Aetolia were engulfed by the wave of the Illyrian invasion. Epirus which had been in greater part Hellenized and whose religious center was the sanctuary of Zeus in Dodona, became once more Illyrian. Aetolia, a flourishing land in Homeric times, lapsed into almost complete barbarism. A great many of the Aetolians crossed the Corinthian Gulf, subjected the native Greek population, and settled in the land which became known as Elis.

Early Christian and Byzantine political philosophy, Francis Dvorník With the drift of time, Dorians were gradually alienated as they were no longer part of their primordial stock. There are some evidences which infers how their Hellenization took place:

68. [1] ταῦτα μὲν ἐς Ἄδρηστόν οἱ ἐπεποίητο, φυλὰς δὲ τὰς Δωριέων, ἵνα δὴ μὴ αἱ αὐταὶ ἔωσι τοῖσι Σικυωνίοισι καὶ τοῖσι Ἀργείοισι, μετέβαλε ἐς ἄλλα οὐνόματα. ἔνθα καὶ πλεῖστον κατεγέλασε τῶν Σικυωνίων· ἐπὶ γὰρ ὑός τε καὶ ὄνου τὰς ἐπωνυμίας μετατιθεὶς αὐτὰ τὰ τελευταῖα ἐπέθηκε, πλὴν τῆς ἑωυτοῦ φυλῆς· ταύτῃ δὲ τὸ οὔνομα ἀπὸ τῆς ἑωυτοῦ ἀρχῆς ἔθετο

68. Thus he had done to Adrastos; and he also changed the names of the Dorian tribes, in order that the Sikyonians might not have the same tribes as the Argives; in which matter he showed great contempt of the Sikyonians, for the names he gave were taken from the names of a pig and an ass by changing only the endings. It's striking that there was a mutual animosity between Acheans (older inhabitants) and the Dorians, which were perceived as foreigners:

Architecture

Frano Prendi, a renowned archaeologist who has published in the prestigious CAH, observed no difference between the cities on the southern Illyria and those in Epirus.

EPIRIOTS:

Ἠπειρῶται δ’ εἰσὶ καὶ Ἀμφίλοχοι καὶ οἱ ὑπερκείμενοι καὶ συνάπτοντες τοῖς Ἰλλυρικοῖς ὄρεσι, τραχεῖαν οἰκοῦντες χώραν, Μολοττοί τε καὶ Ἀθαμᾶνες καὶ Αἴθικες καὶ Τυμφαῖοι καὶ Ὀρέσται Παρωραῖοί τε καὶ Ἀτιντᾶνες, οἱ μὲν πλησιάζοντες τοῖς Μακεδόσι μᾶλλον οἱ δὲ τῷ Ἰονίῳ κόλπῳ. λέγεται δὲ τὴν Ὀρεστιάδα κατασχεῖν ποτε Ὀρέστης φεύγων τὸν τῆς μητρὸς φόνον καὶ καταλιπεῖν ἐπώνυμον ἑαυτοῦ τὴν χώραν, κτίσαι δὲ καὶ πόλιν, καλεῖσθαι δ’ αὐτὴν Ἄργος Ὀρεστικόν. ἀναμέμικται δὲ τούτοις τὰ Ἰλλυρικὰ ἔθνη τὰ πρὸς τῷ νοτίῳ μέρει τῆς ὀρεινῆς καὶ τὰ ὑπὲρ τοῦ Ἰονίου κόλπου· τῆς γὰρ Ἐπιδάμνου καὶ τῆς Ἀπολλωνίας μέχρι τῶν Κεραυνίων ὑπεροικοῦσι Βυλλίονές τε καὶ Ταυλάντιοι καὶ Παρθῖνοι καὶ Βρῦγοι· πλησίον δέ που καὶ τὰ ἀργυρεῖα τὰ ἐν Δαμαστίῳ, περὶ ἃ Δυέσται συνεστήσαντο τὴν δυναστείαν καὶ Ἐγχέλειοι, οὓς καὶ Σεσαρηθίους καλοῦσι· πρὸς δὲ τούτοις Λυγκῆσταί τε καὶ ἡ Δευρίοπος καὶ ἡ τρίπολις Πελαγονία καὶ Ἐορδοὶ καὶ Ἐλίμεια καὶ Ἐράτυρα. ταῦτα δὲ πρότερον μὲν κατεδυναστεύετο ἕκαστα, ὧν ἐν τοῖς Ἐγχελείοις οἱ Κάδμου καὶ Ἁρμονίας ἀπόγονοι ἦρχον, καὶ τὰ μυθευόμενα περὶ αὐτῶν ἐκεῖ δείκνυται. οὗτοι μὲν οὖν οὐχ ὑπὸ ἰθαγενῶν ἤρχοντο· οἱ δὲ Λυγκῆσται ὑπ’ Ἀρραβαίῳ ἐγένοντο τοῦ Βακχιαδῶν γένους ὄντι· τούτου δ’ ἦν θυγατριδῆ ἡ Φιλίππου μήτηρ τοῦ Ἀμύντου Εὐρυδίκη, Σίρρα δὲ θυγάτηρ· καὶ τῶν Ἠπειρωτῶν δὲ Μολοττοὶ ὑπὸ Πύρρῳ τῷ Νεοπτολέμου τοῦ Ἀχιλλέως καὶ τοῖς ἀπογόνοις αὐτοῦ Θετταλοῖς οὖσι γεγονότες· οἱ λοιποὶ δὲ ὑπὸ ἰθαγενῶν ἤρχοντο· εἶτ’ ἐπικρατούντων ἀεί τινων κατέστρεψεν ἅπαντα εἰς τὴν Μακεδόνων ἀρχήν, πλὴν ὀλίγων τῶν ὑπὲρ τοῦ Ἰονίου κόλπου. καὶ δὴ καὶ τὰ περὶ Λύγκον καὶ Πελαγονίαν καὶ Ὀρεστιάδα καὶ Ἐλίμειαν τὴν ἄνω Μακεδονίαν ἐκάλουν, οἱ δ’ ὕστερον καὶ ἐλευθέραν· ἔνιοι δὲ καὶ σύμπασαν τὴν μέχρι Κορκύρας Μακεδονίαν προσαγορεύουσιν, αἰτιολογοῦντες ἅμα ὅτι καὶ κουρᾷ καὶ διαλέκτῳ καὶ χλαμύδι καὶ ἄλλοις τοιούτοις χρῶνται παραπλησίως·

The Amphilochians are Epeirotes; and so are the peoples who are situated above them and border on the Illyrian mountains, inhabiting a rugged country — I mean the Molossi, the Athamanes, the Aethices, the Tymphaei, the Orestae, and also the Paroraei and the Atintanes, some of them being nearer to the Macedonians and others to the Ionian Gulf. It is said that Orestes once took possession of Orestias — when in exile on account of the murder of his mother — and left the country bearing his name; and that he also founded a city and called it Argos Oresticum. But the Illyrian tribes which are near the southern part of the mountainous country and those which are above the Ionian Gulf are intermingled with these peoples; for above Epidamnus and Apollonia as far as the Ceraunian Mountains dwell the Bylliones, the Taulantii, the Parthini, and the Brygi.

(…) Then, because one tribe or another was always getting the mastery over others, they all ended in the Macedonian empire, except a few who dwelt above the Ionian Gulf. And in fact the regions about Lyncus, Pelagonia, Orestias, and elimeia, used to be called Upper Macedonia, though later on they were by some also called Free Macedonia. But some go so far as to call the whole of the country Macedonia, as far as Corcyra, at the same time stating as their reason that in tonsure, language, short cloak, and other things of the kind, the usages of the inhabitants are similar, although, they add, some speak both languages.” To get it straight, Strabo firmly said that some of the tribes which were tightly linked with one another were basically the same on the basis of the language and traditions. Some of them (he did not specify) were bilinguals, invoking that certain tribes were in the process of Hellenization. He furnishes us with the following piece of information:

Theopompus says, that there are fourteen Epirotic nations. Of these, the most celebrated are the Chaones and Molotti, because the whole of Epirus was at one time subject, first to Chaones, afterwards to Molotti. Their power was greatly strengthened by the family of their kings being descended from the Æacidæ, and because the ancient and famous oracle of Dodona26 was in their country. Chaones, Thesproti, and next after these Cassopæi, (who are Thes- proti,) occupy the coast, a fertile tract reaching from the Ceraunian mountains to the Ambracian Gulf.

The absence of Hellenic Ambraciotes and Acarnanes is very significant. Strabo did not rank them among 14 tribes of Epirus but set them apart:

Then follows the entrance of the Ambracian Gulf, which is a little more than four stadia in width. The circuit of the gulf is 400 stadia, and the whole has good harbours. On sailing into it, on the right hand are the Acarnanes, who are Greeks; and here near the entrance of the gulf is a temple of Apollo Actius, situated on an eminence; in the plain below is a sacred grove, and a naval station. and further down he averred:

On the left hand are Nicopolis, and the Cassopæi, a tribe of the Epirotæ, extending as far as the recess of the gulf at Ambracia. Imagine yourself as you were sailing in the Bay of Ambracia. As the ship enters there, the captain Strabo would point with his finger the left side in the direction of the Cassopeans in Epirus. When the ship turns right, Strabo would point with his finger at the lands of Acarnanes, which were Greek.

The Molotti also were Epirotæ, and were subjects of Pyrrhus Neoptolemus, the son of Achilles, and of his descendants, who were Thessalians. The rest were governed by native princes.

The bilinguals of Strabo might have well been Molossians, Lyncesti and the Encheli who were governed by Aecides, Bacchiadæ and Cadmides, ruling families which used to spoke presumably Greek. The rest of the tribes where governed by their own princes, clearly implying for their non-Greek language.

Anyway, as far as i know there no linguistic vestiges at Epirus. Furthermore u must thing that at the age of Strabo and under of the changes that Roman Empire brought, many populations changed their territories. So Strabo describes the situation at his era. This situation shows nothing for the origin of Epirotes. You are dead wrong. Strabo relied his information mainly on the earlier observations made by the Homer, Hecatues of Milet and Theopompus. If the Illyrians have gradually poured in Epirus, he would have noticed it. Strabo holds that both of Illyria and Epirus were short in men, which is not far from the truth, knowing that thousands of lllyrians and Epirotes were either enslaved or expelled out of their native lands.

Yes Hellenism was a process that took place at Epirus, but only with the meaning of the cultural evolution and this happened from Tharypas after his returning from Athens. A very important clue is that at the era of Strabo the Athenian element had overcompensated every other Greek element and ended up as the one and only Greek element. That's meaningless. If the hellenization meant simply a cultural evolution, as you maintain, then why the same isn't noticed at various Greek tribes which fell under the hegemony of Athens? There were a plenty of Greek cities which were directly controlled by the Athens but no source explicitly made any mention of the Hellenization? Had it been Epirus profoundly Greek, Plutarch would not feel the need to draw the attention that Hellenization was taking place there.

Speakers of these various Greek dialects settled different parts of Greece at different times during the Middle Bronze Age, with one group, the "northwest" Greeks, developing their own dialect and peopling central Epirus. This was the origin of the Molossian or Epirotic tribes.

p 62, In the shadow of Olympus; The emergence of Macedon, E.N.Borza

I urge for caution if you are about to cite Eugene Borza. I guess you're aware of his books, where he question the Hellenism of the Macedones on the sense they never perceived

Olympic Games

It's not settled down yet if the Epirots really participated on Olympics. A dubious list which can be found all over internet mention at least five Epirots who participated there.

Sophron of Ambracia Stadion, Olympics 432 BC

Arybbas of Epirus Tethrippon Olympics 344 BC

Tlasimachus of Ambracia Tethrippon and Synoris Olympics 296 BC

Antipater of Epirus Stadion Olympics 136 BC

Andromachus of Ambracia Stadion Olympics 60 BC

Three of them were from Ambracia, a Greek colony at the entrance of Epirus. There is virtually no proof to ascertain that the rest of Epirots were allowed to participate on Olympics.

It cannot be proven that proto-Dorians spoke a genuine Greek language while they were shifting in south. What's becoming increasingly clear is the fact that they were accompanied by various Illyrian tribes who happened to be their close neighbours. One of the main Dorian tribes is admittedely Illyrian. The following testimony taken out by the lexicon of Stephan Byzantini is very telling:

Ὑλλεῖς, ἔθνος Ἰλλυρικόν ,

Ὑπὲρ δὲ τοὺς Ὕλλους Λιβυρνοὶ καί τινες Ἴστροι λεγόμενοι Θρᾷκες. Καὶ τὸ

θηλυκὸν Ὕλλις. Πρόκειται Χεῤῥόνησος Ὑλλικὴ

μάλιστα Πελοποννήσου, ὥς φασι, πεντεκαίδεκα πό-

λεις ἔχουσα παμμεγέθεις οἰκουμένας.

The imagination of ancient Greeks went as far as to suggest that Greek gods were at least connected with the Illyrian ones. The "Birds" of Aristophanes probably reflect that conviction:

PITHETAERUS Ah! and since when, pray? P,p>ROMETHEUS

Since you founded this city in the air. There is not a man who now sacrifices to the gods, the smoke of the victims no longer reaches us. Not the smallest offering comes! We fast as though it were the festivall of Demeter. The barbarian gods, who are dying of hunger, are bawling like Illyrians and threaten to make an armed descent upon Zeus, if he does not open markets where joints of the victims are sold.

PITHETAERUS

What! there are other gods besides you, barbarian gods who dwell above Olympus?

PROMETHEUS

If there were no barbarian gods, who would be the patron of Execestides?

PITHETAERUS

And what is the name of these gods?

PROMETHEUS

Their name? Why, the Triballi

Presence of non-Greek cults practiced in Dodona sanctuary. Elizabeth Carney has long noticed the popularity of snake imagery on Dodona votives and the use of living snakes in Epirus in a prophetic cult of Apollo. The Greeks have no addiction to the snake cults which set them apart from the Illyrians, who as the pre-Greeks, had a special devotion to the snake in general. It's not odd why the myth of Cadmus (the progenitor of Illyrians) had been turned into a snake. Most of the Illyrian tombstones have often been associated with snake-symbols.

According to Hammond the shrine of Dodona received dedications which were typically Illyrian, and some bronze pendands and other objects of a Glasinac character were found at Vaxia in central Epirus, There is evidence too of Illyrian bands making their way into Thessaly, for instance at Halus in tumulus-burials with cairns of stones. (N.G.L.Hammond “Illyris, Epirus and Macedonia” in The Cambridge Ancient History, Part 1)

The etymology of Alexander is not established yet. The earliest attestation is to be found in Linear B as a-re-ka-sa-da-ra. A similar name was found in Hittite as well. Oliver Masson opt for its Mycenean origin; while the rest of linguist notice its wide distribution over Minor Asia, Epirus, Macedonia, Illyria and southern Italy.

p 252, History of the Hellenic World: The Archaic period, George S. Phylactopoulos, 1977

Plutarch found as quite interesting that name which is why he mentioned. I rather think that he was not persuaded with its Greek meaning, otherwise he would explain the meaning which is concealed behind that name. The phrahse "in their country's tongue" meant a non-Greek idiom on the grounds that numerous testimonies left Epirus out of Greece, considering its people scarcely Greek.

Hammond is leading authority on the studies relating to Epirus. His reputation has not yet surpassed by any scholar. But some of his statements are overly speculative based on no facts. He never paid attention to the testimonies which pointed out the opposite of his thoughts. I have thoroughly studied most of the old sources relating to the Epirots and they truly consider them as completely different from the Greeks.

We see here that Illyrians, whose costumes were different from Epirotes, made a violent penetrations at grounds that were not Illyrian. Have you ever bothered yourself to know if the Epirots wore the same costumes as the Greeks?

The supporters of the idea which considers Epirotes as Greek is laid on the fact that most of inscriptions were written in Greek. This fact has been overshadowed by the presence of such inscriptions among Thracians, Illyrians, Iberians, Messapians, etc. Most of them were written in Greek too. It plainly means that Greek was a written language throughout the Mediterranean world. Judging from the inscription yielded in Epirus, we cannot for sure reconstruct how their language look-like. An dedication of bronze plaque had it:

θεός ∶ τύχα·

Ζεῦ, Δωδώνης μεδέων· τόδε σοι δῶρον πέμπω παρ’ ἐμοῦ ∶

Ἀγάθων

Ἐχεφύλου καὶ γενεὰ

πρόξενοι Μολοσσῶν

καὶ συμμάχων ἐν τ-

ριάκοντα γενεαῖς

ἐκ Τρωΐας Κασσάν-

Another dedication found on Dodona:

[Ἡρακ]λέως.

The list is numerous. All the inscriptions of Epirus differ just slightly from those discovered in Illyria, Thrace and elsewhere. The language of inscriptions was not the vernacular patois of people.

“Hellenization" and Southern Phoenicia: Reconsidering the Impact of Greece Before Alexander, by Susan Rebecca Martin:

- Through the example of language, a process is suggested which "barbarians" could become increasingly at "being Greek". Hellenes and barbarians are not perceived as antithetical but as different points on the same continuum. They represent different (cultural) possibilities. According to Claudius Iolaus, the "Dorians" were considered Phoenicians. In the passage, "Phoenician" is not ethnically antithetical to (the unstated) "Hellene" but is still important to describing "Dorian" identity.

- In the case of the Phoenicians "Dorians" in Claudius Iolaus, I think it better to understand "Phoenician" and "Hellene" as cultural groups encompassing various identities and ethnicities (etc.), some of which were shared.

Hall takes up the question of ancient Greek origins, offering a good historical synthesis of modern archaeological and linguistic work on the problem of when Greek-speaking peoples first arrived in Greece. But this question is of peripheral importance to Hall's study. He argues that Greek-speakers' penetration into the Greek peninsula came gradually over an extended period of time, and that the idea of a massive population influx of Greek speakers is untenable. The main ethnic sub-categories of the ancient Greeks—Achaeans, Ionians, Aiolians, and Dorians—only emerged in local conditions during the eighth and seventh centuries B.C.E. Panhellenism was a sporadic and ephemeral force in ancient Greece. It peaked under extraordinary circumstances—prospects for united aggression, the threatened security of Hellas, or international crisis for the collective Greek city-states. Hall suggests that we look to the great athletic festivals for origins; in this context, Hellenism may have been an aggregrative ethnicity that operated across geographically contiguous regions to weld together a transregional aristocracy against lesser status groups. "Hellenicity" clearly emerges only in the fifth century B.C.E., and then it was largely the production of imperial Athens, which acted as "the new self-appointed arbiter of cultural authenticity." Hellenic identity thus came to be measured increasingly in terms of culture and education rather than of putative descent groups through a process that reached its completion during the Hellenistic age.

Craige B. Champion Syracuse University While Strabo recalls the dim past of the Greeks, he stated: Ἑλλάδος μὲν οὖν πολλὰ ἔθνη γεγένηται (There have been many tribes in Greece), thus pointing out to the various peoples who used to live there. Whether they embraced partially or thoroughly the Hellenic identity, it doesn't matter much. It must be seriously taken into consideration the very fact that pre-Greeks received various names from powerful clans, which were able to extend their rule.

…κατ' Εὐριπίδην Πελασγιώτας ὠνομασμένους τὸ πρὶν Δαναοὺς καλεῖσθαι νόμον ἔθηκ' ἀν' Ἑλλάδα.

…according to Euripides,"throughout Greece he laid down a law that all people hitherto named Pelasgians should be called Danaans.

It's worthy of noting how the Dorian elite conceived its origin. The story of Herodotus has some interesting glimpses:

Thus much is related by the Lacedaemonians, but not by any of the other Greeks; in what follows I give the tradition of the Greeks generally. The kings of the Dorians (they say)- counting up to Perseus, son of Danae, and so omitting the god- are rightly given in the common Greek lists, and rightly considered to have been Greeks themselves; for even at this early time they ranked among that people. I say "up to Perseus," and not further, because Perseus has no mortal father by whose name he is called, as Hercules has in Amphitryon; whereby it appears that I have reason on my side, and am right in saying, "up to Perseus." If we follow the line of Danad, daughter of Acrisius, and trace her progenitors, we shall find that the chiefs of the Dorians are really genuine Egyptians. In the genealogies here given I have followed the common Greek accounts.

According to the Persian story, Perseus was an Assyrian who became a Greek; his ancestors, therefore, according to them, were not Greeks. They do not admit that the forefathers of Acrisius were in any way related to Perseus, but say they were Egyptians, as the Greeks likewise testify. Any idea why is that? If the Dorians were really genuine Greeks, why the embarked such claims putting themselves on the same boats with the Egyptians? You gleefully cited various scholars which claim about the Greekness of Dorians, but a matter of fact is that they give no evidence to conclusively assume they spoke proto-Greek from the very inception.

As for Stephan Byzantinos you are wrong also. FIrstly he nowhere says for a common origin of Dorians and Illyrians. The synonymity could be a product of the naming process that was a habit for ancient Greeks. Hylleans were not the only occasion that Greeks gave the name. I'm not in the good mood to follow your tricks. Stephan Byzantinos stated that a large group of Dorians sprung from Dalmatia, being in the outskirts of Liburni. If you had some linguistic knowledge, you would already apprehend that its very likely that Dorians were of the same stock as the Illyrians on the basis that certain names were spread out all over Peleponesus. The name of Dymanes might be etymologically traced back to the tribal name of Manoi:

MANIANS. And from Nestians is the Naron river: and the voyage into the Narona is not narrow: and even a trireme voyages into it, and boats into the upper trading-town, being distant from the sea 80 stades. And these are Illyrian by nation, the Manians. And there is a lake inland from the trading-town, a great one, and the lake extends to Autariatai, an Illyric nation. And there is an island in the lake of 120 stades: and this island is very much well farmed. And from this lake the Naron river flows. And from the Naron up to the Arion river is a day’s voyage: and from the Arion river a voyage of a day’s half: and Kadmos’s and Harmonia’s stones are here, and a sanctuary [not] far from the Rhizous river. And from the Rhizous river to Bouthoë the voyage ** and the trading-town.

You're entirely wrong if you think that Illyrian ancestry of the Dorians is not endorsed by the modern scholars. Let us furnishes with some of them:

Originally, the three Dorian phylai were separate tribal societies, possibly of diverse origins: it was proposed that the Hylleis originated in Illyria and the Dymanes in the northeast Peloponnese, while the Pamphyloi, whose name appears to mean 'all types', was a residual category of mixed origin"

Ethnic Identity in Greek Antiquity, Jonathan M. Hall - 2000, p. 11 The earlier seat of Dymanes is not defined yet, although there are some compelling evidences to suggest for a Dalmatian origin on the ground the same tribe was to be found in the eastern shores of Adriatic. Wilkes locates Dymanes at Coreyra Nigra. Anthropological studies done by Carleton Coon have established beyond any doubt the fact that Dorians were similar to Illyrians:

Dinaric type in different countries means different origin (according to racial anthropology and history the conclusion is that Illyrians, Venets from N. Italy, and at least partically Dorians, Macedonians and Phrygians were all of Dinaric race and thus related to each other).

Connection between Dorians and south Illyrians can be drawn by the fact that the first recorded ruler of Illyrians was called Hyllus whom in the Hellenic mythology was also son of Heraklidis (Hercules) whom Dorians considered as their ancestor hense their term ‘return of Heraklidis’ for their invasion of Greece.

Coon discovered that Montenegro and Albania is highly concentrated Illyrian racial zone and that the Sfakians are directly descended from Doric tribes that invaded Crete from the direction of Macedonia and Illyria. Moreover, he discovered that Albanians, Montenegrins and Sfakians shared many similarities in stature, appearance, language, national costume, belligerent tendencies, tribal orders, and vendettas.

A matter of fact is that an Illyrian ingredient of Dorians is well-received by many:

”In some other Dorian states these phylae were mixed with other tribes, but at Sparta the settlement, though it probably included Illyrian elements as well, upheld the pure Dorian tribal division..." (From Solon to Socrates Greek History and Civilization During the 6th and 5th Centuries BC, Victor Ehrenberg,2010 p. 25) If you decide for the first time on your life to make a thorough research in order to see the reverse side of the coin, then you will find additional evidences which make plain the fact that Dorians and Illyrians shared many commonalities for they have cohabited for centuries probably in the same areas:

The names of the first king of Sparta, Oibalos, and his wife, Bateia, were Illyrian (Les Illyriens en Grece at en Italie, 1943)

The Etruscans begin to speak, Zĕchariă Mayani, Simon and Schuster, 1962, p. 7

Many have raised eyebrows when it came to light that Illyrian names were the same as the Mycenean and Dorian ones. Some Proto-Illyrian tribes which crept in and around Mycenae must be seen as responsible for the wide distribution of some names which exclusively pertain to the Illyrian ones, on the sense Classical Greeks used slightly them. In a stone tablet discovered somewhere in the island of Korcula (Dalmatia) is given the history of foundation of Lumbarda. Beside the Corinthian settlers, there were at least two Illyrians:

Pyllos and his son Dazos were probably the representatives of the local Illyrian aristocracy and the owners of the land that the people of Issa wanted to obtain. According to the Psephisma these two parties agreed on a contract, so that the settlement was founded in peace. http://lumbarda.hr/en/lumbarda/lumbardska-psefizma/ If the history of the settlement has sunk in oblivion, the similarity with "Greek" Pylos is quite interesting as long as its etymology isn't revealed yet.

Mycenean Pylos is an important archaeological site located on the western coast of the Peloponnese in Greece. The Bronze Age site, located at modern Epano Englianos some 9 km north-east of the bay, was first excavated by Carl Blegen in 1952. Blegen dubbed the remains of a large Mycenean palace excavated there the Palace of Nestor, after the Homeric ruler Nestor, who ruled over "Sandy Pylos" in the Iliad. Linear B tablets recovered from the site by Blegen clearly demonstrate that the site was called Pylos (Mycenaean Greek: Pulos, Linear B: Pu-ro) by its Mycenean inhabitants. The site of Mycenean Pylos was abandoned sometime after the 8th century BCE, and was apparently unknown in the Classical Period.

The works of Aristophanes, are full of metaphors and unreal elements. And this happens because he wanted to give to the viewers political, social and existential messages. The ancient Greek comedies (and ancient Greek theatre generally) were a ritual, a process of perception of ourself. You did not get straight my point. You either read it in passing or merely misinterpreted because I said clearly:

Most of the Illyrian gods had basically the same attributes as Greek ones. The imagination of ancient Greeks went as far as to suggest that Greek gods were at least connected with the Illyrian ones. The "Birds" of Aristophanes probably reflect that conviction ...

Also these barbarian gods were not Illyrians but actually Thracians. U can see this few line beyond the text that u posted and obviously u have never read (it seems that someone tricked u again,by a text that has been cut, for manipulation and misleading). Hold your horses, sir! I'm being fully persuaded you misread the sources either because you know little of English or want to twist the meaning as it suits to your warped perception. You know next to nothing about the Illyrians, let alone Thracians. If you ever stumbled upon a historical literature, you would notice that some Illyrian tribes were nominally labelled as Thracian probably because they fell under the hegemony of certain Thracian tribes. Appian chronicle is the most trustworthy one written so far by the ancients regarding Illyrians. Most of the sources were willing to downplay the importance of Illyrians by describing them as savages. However, Appian collected carefully some of the myths which were prevalent at his time. One of them make Triballus as son of Illyrius, thus suggesting an Illyrian identity to them. Here we go:

Illyrius had six sons, Encheleus, Autarieus, Dardanus, Maedus, Taulas, and Perrhaebus, also daughters, Partho, Daortho, Dassaro, and others, from whom sprang the Taulantii, the Perrhaebi, the Enchelees, the Autarienses, the Dardani, the Partheni, the Dassaretii, and the Darsii. Autarieus had a son Pannonius, or Paeon, and the latter had sons, Scordiscus and Triballus, from whom nations bearing similar names were derived. But I will leave these matters to antiquarians.

[§3] The Illyrian tribes are many, as is natural in so extensive a country; and celebrated even now are the names of the Scordisci and the Triballi, who inhabited a wide region and destroyed each other by wars to such a degree that the remnant of the Triballi took refuge with the Getae on the other side of the Danube, and, though flourishing until the time of [the Macedonian kings] Philip and Alexander, is now Anyway the fact is that Greeks hadn't got the same Gods with Illyrians. And since Epirotes had the same Gods with Greeks and not the Illyrians, is another one clue that brings them closer to a Greek origin.

The below statement is product of sheer ignorance of someone who is trying desperately to prove that Epirotes were of Greek ethnos. The Illyrians had not a well-organized pantheon of gods. But the archaeological findings have greatly increased our knowledge about their religion. Ancient writers stated that Illyrians were fond of their gods, making to them dedications. Arthur Evans, one of the first archaeologist who made explorations on the Illyrian soil noticed the existence of a god, which was basically the same as Zeus. More concretely he found out beneath of Orthodox Church of "Sveti Ilija" an altar dedicated to Jupiter which:

….yield precedence of worship to a ruder Illyrian forerunner, the coeval of the Dodonaean Zeus

Ancient Illyria: An Archaeological Exploration, Arthur Evans, p.134

The popularity of snake imagery on Dodona votives and the use of living snakes in Epirus in a prophetic cult of Apollo may mean that Molossians used them in Dionysiac worship and that Olympias imported the practice to Macedonia.

You never cease of amazing me. Frankly said, you have a good sense of humor which I'm immensely enjoying. Keep it up, mate! On the basis of the Dionysiac worship, you just discovered a great deal of "proof" which indicates the missed Greekness of Epirotes. Jokes aside, the dionysiac worship cast no light at the ethnicity of Epirots because such mysteries were widely practiced among many people.

Next time pls put all the text. Lets see what Elizabeth Carney writes:

Sure! Having read much of her work, I appreciate most the following statements:

The degree of Hellenization of Molossia outside the royal family is debatable (p.140) or:

The development of a heroic genealogy by the Molossian royal house played an early role in the Hellenization of Epirus.1 Tradition had long associated Neoptolemus (alternatively called Pyrrhus), son of Achilles, with rule of Epirus… (p.5)

The fact that your ignorance is so huge about ancient Greek religion, leaves me speechless. Who is the idiot that told u that Greeks had no addiction to the snake's cult?

Let's see few examples:

A Greek archaeologist revealed a cult-snake somewhere in the territory of Macedonia, considering it as the only cult relating to the snakes found so far in Greece:

http://i85.servimg.com/u/f85/13/95/49/70/pictur55.png

As the pantheon of gods was shaped once forever, the cult of snake is less represented with exception of some remnants on certain parts of Greece. The opposite was to the Illyrians.

In southern Illyria, the Serpent Cult predominated. Bracelets, necklaces, pins and pendants from the middle first millennium BC adorn images of a creature long believed to symbolize fertility, guardianship as protector and immortality through resurrection (shedding of skin thus reborn). The importance of the serpent cult in southern Illyria goes beyond religionism as the cults true importance may lie in the very roots of Illyrian creation (see Origins).

http://www.ancientillyrians.com/religion.html

The same is further strengthen by Wilkes:

http://i85.servimg.com/u/f85/13/95/49/70/pictur56.png

The mythology of Illyrians seems to depict "Mikon" and "Zeau" as being twin brothers originally born as snakes (Illyrians were very appreciative of the animal) - corresponding to the phrase "two minds are better than one". The two Gods seem to be very close to one another and were favorites of Illyrian "farmers/growers". Mythology suggests that the two married the child "Genusus".

Dodona's oracle never had Illyrian character, or was Illyrians. Firstly because it doesn't much with Illyrians religion and there are not Illyrian elements at its religious structure.

Dodona wasn't Illyrian, if that pleases you. Do you want to repeat it over and over again? I rather ignore the wishful thinking of individuals whose knowledge is greatly limited.

We know the Illyrians spoke a language of their own, but unfortunately no written record of it has been preserved. A logical conclusion would be that the people of this area, today's Albania and former Epirus, must have spoken dialects of this language. Opinions that that southern fringes of this area was Greek speaking has no basis of support. Crossland concluded that "the phonetic characteristics of some place-names in central and northern Greece have been thought to prove that Illyrians or closely related peoples were settled there before the Greek language was introduced . If they were, Greeks must have migrated into southern Epirus early in the first millennium at the latest. (pp. 841-2, R. A. Crossland, The Cambridge Ancient History, Volume III, Part 1, 2008)

Appian, The Foreign Wars -The Illyrian Wars Ill. 1.1

I. Ἰλλυριοὺς Ἕλληνες ἡγοῦνται τοὺς ὑπέρ τε Μακεδονίαν καὶ Θρᾴκην ἀπὸ Χαόνων καὶ Θεσπρωτῶν ἐπὶ ποταμὸν Ἴστρον. καὶ τοῦτ' ἐστὶ τῆς χώρας τὸ μῆκος, εὖρος δ' ἐκ Μακεδόνων τε καὶ Θρᾳκῶν τῶν ὀρείων ἐπὶ Παιονας καὶ τὸν Ἰόνιον καὶ τὰ πρόποδα τῶν Ἄλπεων. καὶ ἔστι τὸ μὲν εὖρος ἡμερῶν πέντε, τὸ δὲ μῆκος τριάκοντα, καθὰ καὶ τοῖς Ἕλλησιν εἴρηται. Ῥωμαίων δὲ τὴν χώραν μετρησαμένων ἔστιν ὑπὲρ ἑξακισχιλίους σταδίους τὸ μῆκος, καὶ τὸ πλάτος ἀμφὶ τοὺς χιλίους καὶ διακοσίους.

The Greeks call those people Illyrians who occupy the region beyond Macedonia and Thrace from Chaonia and Thesprotia to the river Danube. This is the length of the country. Its breadth is from Macedonia and the mountains of Thrace to Pannonia and the Adriatic and the foothills of the Alps. Its breadth is five days' journey and its length thirty . The Romans measured the country and found its length to be upward of 1,000 kilometers(changed in our system) and its width about 220.

Strabo 007.007.008

Ἠπειρῶται δ' εἰσὶ καὶ Ἀμφίλοχοι καὶ οἱ ὑπερκείμενοι καὶ συνάπτοντες τοῖς Ἰλλυρικοῖς ὄρεσι, τραχεῖαν οἰκοῦντες χώραν, Μολοττοί τε καὶ Ἀθαμᾶνες καὶ Αἴθικες καὶ Τυμφαῖοι καὶ Ὀρέσται Παρωραῖοί τε καὶ Ἀτιντᾶνες, οἱ μὲν πλησιάζοντες τοῖς Μακεδόσι μᾶλλον οἱ δὲ τῷ Ἰονίῳ κόλπῳ. λέγεται δὲ τὴν Ὀρεστιάδα κατασχεῖν ποτε Ὀρέστης φεύγων τὸν τῆς μητρὸς φόνον καὶ καταλιπεῖν ἐπώνυμον ἑαυτοῦ τὴν χώραν, κτίσαι δὲ καὶ πόλιν, καλεῖσθαι δ' αὐτὴν Ἄργος Ὀρεστικόν. ἀναμέμικται δὲ τούτοις τὰ Ἰλλυρικὰ ἔθνη τὰ πρὸς τῷ νοτίῳ μέρει τῆς ὀρεινῆς καὶ τὰ ὑπὲρ τοῦ Ἰονίου κόλπου· τῆς γὰρ Ἐπιδάμνου καὶ τῆς Ἀπολλωνίας μέχρι τῶν Κεραυνίων ὑπεροικοῦσι Βυλλίονές τε καὶ Ταυλάντιοι καὶ Παρθῖνοι καὶ Βρῦγοι· πλησίον δέ που καὶ τὰ ἀργυρεῖα τὰ ἐν Δαμαστίῳ, περὶ ἃ Δυέσται συνεστήσαντο τὴν δυναστείαν καὶ Ἐγχέλειοι, οὓς καὶ Σεσαρηθίους καλοῦσι· πρὸς δὲ τούτοις Λυγκῆσταί τε καὶ ἡ Δευρίοπος καὶ ἡ τρίπολις Πελαγονία καὶ Ἐορδοὶ καὶ Ἐλίμεια καὶ Ἐράτυρα. ταῦτα δὲ πρότερον μὲν κατεδυναστεύετο ἕκαστα, ὧν ἐν τοῖς Ἐγχελείοις οἱ Κάδμου καὶ Ἁρμονίας ἀπόγονοι ἦρχον, καὶ τὰ μυθευόμενα περὶ αὐτῶν ἐκεῖ δείκνυται. οὗτοι μὲν οὖν οὐχ ὑπὸ ἰθαγενῶν ἤρχοντο· οἱ δὲ Λυγκῆσται ὑπ' Ἀρραβαίῳ ἐγένοντο τοῦ Βακχιαδῶν γένους ὄντι· τούτου δ' ἦν θυγατριδῆ ἡ Φιλίππου μήτηρ τοῦ Ἀμύντου Εὐρυδίκη, Σίρρα δὲ θυγάτηρ· καὶ τῶν Ἠπειρωτῶν δὲ Μολοττοὶ ὑπὸ Πύρρῳ τῷ Νεοπτολέμου τοῦ Ἀχιλλέως καὶ τοῖς ἀπογόνοις αὐτοῦ Θετταλοῖς οὖσι γεγονότες· οἱ λοιποὶ δὲ ὑπὸ ἰθαγενῶν ἤρχοντο· εἶτ' ἐπικρατούντων ἀεί τινων κατέστρεψεν ἅπαντα εἰς τὴν Μακεδόνων ἀρχήν, πλὴν ὀλίγων τῶν ὑπὲρ τοῦ Ἰονίου κόλπου. καὶ δὴ καὶ τὰ περὶ Λύγκον καὶ Πελαγονίαν καὶ Ὀρεστιάδα καὶ Ἐλίμειαν τὴν ἄνω Μακεδονίαν ἐκάλουν, οἱ δ' ὕστερον καὶ ἐλευθέραν· ἔνιοι δὲ καὶ σύμπασαν τὴν μέχρι Κορκύρας Μακεδονίαν προσαγορεύουσιν, αἰτιολογοῦντες ἅμα ὅτι καὶ κουρᾷ καὶ διαλέκτῳ καὶ χλαμύδι καὶ ἄλλοις τοιούτοις χρῶνται παραπλησίως·

The Amphilochians are Epeirotes; and so are the peoples who are situated above them and border on the Illyrian mountains, inhabiting a rugged country--I mean the Molossi, the Athamanes, the Aethices, the Tymphaei, the Orestae, and also the Paroraei and the Atintanes, some of them being nearer to the Macedonians and others to the Ionian Gulf. It is said that Orestes once took possession of Orestias--when is, exile on account of the murder of his mother--and left the country bearing his name; and that he also founded a city and called it Argos Oresticum. But the Illyrian tribes which are near the southern part of the mountainous country and those which are above the Ionian Gulf are intermingled with these peoples; for above Epidamnus and Apollonia as far as the Ceraunian Mountains dwell the Bylliones, the Taulantii, the Parthini, and the Brygi. Somewhere near by are also the silver mines of Damastium, {457} around which the Dyestae and the Encheleii (also called Sesarethii) together established their dominion; and near these people are also the Lyncestae, the territory Deuriopus, Pelagonian Tripolitis, the Eordi, Elimeia, and Eratyra. In earlier times these peoples were ruled separately, each by its own dynasty……But some go so far as to call the whole of the country Macedonia, as far as Corcyra, at the same time stating as their reason that [u]in tonsure, language, short cloak[/u], and other things of the kind, the usages of the inhabitants are similar.

Herodotus Book 6.45

Μαρδονίῳ δὲ καὶ τῷ πεζῷ στρατοπεδευομένῳ ἐν Μακεδονίῃ νυκτὸς Βρύγοι Θρήικες ἐπεχείρησαν· καί σφεων πολλοὺς φονεύουσι οἱ Βρύγοι, Μαρδόνιον δὲ αὐτὸν τρωματίζουσι

Thus fared the fleet; and meanwhile Mardonios and the land-army while encamping in Macedonia were attacked in the night by the Brygian Thracians, and many of them were slain by the Brygians and Mardonios himself was wounded…

Herodotus Book 7: Polymnia [70]

Φρύγες[/b] δὲ ἀγχοτάτω τῆς Παφλαγονικῆς σκευὴν εἶχον, ὀλίγον παραλλάσσοντες. οἱ δὲ Φρύγες, ὡς Μακεδόνες λέγουσι, ἐκαλέοντο [b]Βρίγες[/b] χρόνον ὅσον Εὐρωπήιοι ἐόντες σύνοικοι ἦσαν Μακεδόσι, μεταβάντες δὲ ἐς τὴν Ἀσίην ἅμα τῇ χώρῃ καὶ τὸ οὔνομα μετέβαλον ἐς Φρύγας. Ἀρμένιοι δὲ κατά περ Φρύγες ἐσεσάχατο, ἐόντες Φρυγῶν ἄποικοι. τούτων συναμφοτέρων ἦρχε Ἀρτόχμης Δαρείου ἔχων θυγατέρα…

The Phrygians had an equipment very like that of the Paphlagonians with some slight difference. Now the Phrygians, as the Macedonians say, used to be called Brigians during the time that they were natives of Europe and dwelt with the Macedonians; but after they had changed into Asia, with their country they changed also their name and were called Phrygians. The Armenians were armed just like the Phrygians, being settlers from the Phrygians. Of these two together the commander was Artochmes, who was married to a daughter of Dareios…[b]

(bb: The passages list Bryges as Illyrian, then as Thracian… upon return they again were seen as Illyrian…)

(Polybius, The rise of the Roman Empire, HISTORIES Book XVIII.5

Αἰτωλῶν δ' οὐκ ἀνεκτόν: ποίας δὲ κελεύετέ με" [7] φησὶν " [8] ἐκχωρεῖν Ἑλλάδος καὶ πῶς ἀφορίζετε ταύτην; αὐτῶν γὰρ Αἰτωλῶν οὐκ εἰσὶν Ἕλληνες οἱ πλείους: τὸ γὰρ τῶν Ἀγραῶν ἔθνος καὶ τὸ τῶν Ἀποδωτῶν, ἔτι δὲ τῶν Ἀμφιλόχων, οὐκ ἔστιν Ἑλλάς. [9] ἢ τούτων μὲν παραχωρεῖτέ μοι;"

’What is this Greece which you demand that I should evacuate, and what how do you define Greece?. Certainly most of the Aetolians themselves are not Greeks!. The countries of the Agraae, the Apodotea, and the Amphilochians cannot be regarded as Greeks. So do you allow to me to remain in those territories…’

The Greece of the Greeks, Volume 1 By G. A. Perdicaris, 1846:

These are the Molossians, or as they are now called, the Albanians. It is not in our power to define with exactness the period when they emigrated to Attica. Mr. Guillaume, who visited Greece about two hundred years ago, and who wrote a work on Athens, thinks that the Albanians came from the western frontiers of Macedonia, and also from the Acroceronian Mountains—that the Greek emperors drove them out of those regions during the decline of their empire, and sent them to other parts, in order to improve their character and disposition. They sent the more rebellious of them to the Peloponnesus and to Attica, where, after the death of Skanderbeg, they were joined by others of their compatriots. If these conjectures are true, the emperors were not altogether mistaken in their opinion ; for the turbulent Molossians and Chimariotes have not changed materially in their character."

The New Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1987: Many tumuli (burial mounds) containing Illyrian objects made of bronze and iron were discovered at Glasinac (Bosnia), ... their expansion the Illyrians extended their frontiers from the Danube River to the Gulf of Ambracia

"Philip contracted an alliance with Neoptolemos, king of the Illyrian Molossians, and married his daughter Olympias in 357 B.C".

The McGraw-Hill encyclopedia of world biography~ pg.409:

The Illyrians were not a uniform body of people but a conglomeration of many tribes that inhabited the western part of the Balkans, from what is now Slovenia in the northwest to (and including) the region of Epirus, which extends about halfway down the mainland of modern Greece. In general, Illyrians in the highlands of Albania were more isolated than those in the lowlands, and their culture evolved more slowly—a distinction that persisted throughout Albania’s history

*Encyclopedia Britannica, 2002, p. 615: To keep down his ambitious designs, it was important to give him employment at home; and Ptolemy, who knew how to make admirable use of such fiery spirits as the Epirot youth in the prosecution of his subtle policy, not only met the wishes of his consort queen Berenice, but also promoted his own ends, by giving his stepdaughter the princess Antigone in marriage to the young prince, and lending his aid and powerful influence to support the return of his beloved "son" to his native land (458). Restored to his paternal kingdom, he soon carried all before him. The brave Epirots, the Albanians of antiquity, clung with hereditary loyalty and fresh enthusiasm to the high-spirited youth -- the "eagle," as they called him. In the confusion that arose regarding the succession to the Macedonian throne after the death of Cassander (457), the Epirot extended his dominions: step by step he gained the regions on the Ambracian gulf with the important town of Ambracia, the island of Corcyra,(2) and even a part of the Macedonian territory, and with forces far inferior he made head against king Demetrius to the admiration of the Macedonians themselves.

HeLLENIZATION>:

http://www.livius.org/maa-mam/macedonia/macedonia.html

The process of Hellenization reached its nadir at the Hellenistic period:

Except in Egypt, Hellenic influence was nowhere stronger than on the eastern shore of the Mediterranean. Greek cities arose there in continuation, or in place, of the older Semitic foundations, and gradually changed the aspect of the country. Such cities were Raphia, Gaza, Ascalon, Azotus, Jabneh, Jaffa, Cæsarea, Dor, and Ptolemais. It was especially in eastern Palestine that Hellenism took a firm hold, and the cities of the Decapolis (which seems also to have included Damascus) were the centers of Greek influence.This influence extended in later times over the whole of the district east of the Jordan and of the Sea of Gennesaret, especially inTrachonitis, Batanæa, and Auranitis. The cities in western Palestine were not excepted. Samaria and Panias were at an early time settled by Macedonian colonists. The names of places were Hellenized: "Rabbath-Ammon" to "Philadelphia"; "Armoab" to "Ariopolis"; "Akko" to "Ptolemais." The same occurred with personal names: "Ḥoni" became "Menelaus"; "Joshua" became "Jason" or "Jesus." The Hellenic influence pervaded everything, and even in the very strongholds of Judaism it modified the organization of the state, the laws, and public affairs, art, science, and industry, affecting even the ordinary things of life and the common associations of the people.

A glance at the classes of Greek words which found their way into the Hebrew and the Jewish-Aramaic of the period, as compiled by I. Löw (in S. Krauss, "Lehnwörter," pp. 623 et seq.), shows this with great clearness. The Hellenists were not confined to the aristocratic class, but were found in all strata of Jewish society (Wellhausen, "I. J. G." p. 194), though the aristocrats naturally profited more from the good-will of Hellenistic rulers than did other classes.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...#ixzz1WF2EhPF6

http://ancienthistory.about.com/libr...msen_2_7_3.htm:

Aspetos is a word of Albanian origin?

Its Greek etymology is untenable either. Its superficial similarity with a word found on Homeric verses carries little weight. We have to take into account the perplexity of the situation at that age.

Greeks were eager to Hellenize foreign names: …many historical sources are written in Greek, and it was a common practice among Greek historians to hellenize foreign names. For example, the name of the powerful first king of the Persian empire, Kuruš, ought to be transcribed as Kourous or Kouroux in Greek, but became Kyros, because this looks like a Greek word ("Mr. Almighty"). The name that is rendered as Alexandros, which has a perfect Greek etymology, may in fact represent something like Alaxandus, which is not Greek. A related argument that forces us to hesitate is that the Greeks nearly always converted the names of foreign deities.

The presence of some Illyrian vestiges enables us to rightly assume that Illyrian was spoken as a vernacular patois of the Epirots. As far as inscriptions, go, they cannot really be used to conclusively say that the language of the region was Greek, only that Greek was spoken in the region. Strabo furnishes us with a valuable description:

And even to the present day the Thracians, Illyrians, and Epeirotes live on the flanks of the Greeks (though this was still more the case formerly than now); indeed most of the country that at the present time is indisputably Greece is held by the barbarians — Macedonia and certain parts of Thessaly by the Thracians, and the parts above Acarnania and Aetolia by the Thesproti, the Cassopaei, the Amphilochi, the Molossi, and the Athamanes — Epeirotic tribes.

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